I love reading your true, strong, real words. Momming has been my full time gig and I could never have imagined a more beautiful way to spend a lifetime. I’m so grateful. ❤️
This is beautiful. As a woman of 39 who’s partner made a solo decision to get a vasectomy 3 years ago (4 years into our relationship) that devastated me at the time, these considerations are honest and hold space for the reality. He is ten years older and now has two daughters in their early 20’s. He’s Swiss (for those who know, he cuts to the core) and states that while he loves his children, it was not easy (he was the stay at home dad for the first two years for one of them), and he never wants to repeat it more than once. Particularly not at this point in his life. It was a selfish decision, but if ever there is a decision to be selfish about - it’s this one (and trust me, this realization took time to come to).
Personally (this is for anyone who might be walking this fine line of time deciding what to do) I’m feeling differently. My energy overflowed in my 20’s when it was its strongest, and I see in hindsight that there was plenty to pour into others. I’m not feeling I have those reserves anymore, I need my spare time as time seems to have quickened, I can’t stand socializing with the mom/school groups (that would be necessity) and I enjoy living freely according to my own schedule. So perhaps, it’s working out.
What I love about this Sugar letter is that there is acknowledgement of the shadow in these perfect images we strive for. And a lot of sacrifice. There’s more than one option and story line and often our commitment to a fantasy over what simply is, is what causes the pain.
Living with this partner today, I realize why men never saw me as the mother I saw myself to potentially be. I don’t turn to serve someone other than myself. I need and take in ample rest. I have a lot of free time that I don’t commit to anyone but myself. And I’m out of sorts if I don’t have this.
Trust ….. we aren’t victims to our relationships, situation and circumstance. We are half the equation.
Cheryl, your message touched this aching mom heart. Your advice to M was a good start. DS is now 32,abandoned by his father when I was 12 wks, 2 yrs and again at 4 which was only 2 hr visit. I didn't allow more contact. Dated men who expressed dislike for kids of others, bragged about forcing his wife to abort, one was frighteningly friendly toward son... decided was safer not to date. Didn't count on tx schools being so intensely bad..kid was treated for major depression in first month of K!!! Moved to other district ,no better so homeschooled while working in nursing where couldn't get health care insurance, abusive scheduling, did 2 hurricane evacuations, the last 10 days after his appendectomy. Kid is on the spectrum so all these stressors hit him hard. Point is no matter how you prepare there are infinite variables to trip you,break you,hurt your kid,cost more money...or your health. Don't live in tx anymore,don't support any child to live there.
I remember reading this letter in Tiny Beautiful Things, and a red flag is waving in me. This person sounds like a narcissist and I want her not to be a mother. I want her future child to not feel that they are an accessory, a thing that makes this person whole. I fear for this child.
agreed, she says "have a baby" like shes playing house. she never says "child" or even mentions motherhood. i'm curious if she understands that babies grow lol
I wrote a long comment about my experience above. I don’t know if she can be titled as such, that’s quite harsh and is a put down from someone in a position to put her down from a place she cannot answer from or to. However you are correct, the full conversation about what it means to be a mother beyond birth and infancy is missing in the mainstream dialogue AND why many of us crave to be mothers (enter: it fills a hole or connect us to a support/relation/financial system or give us identity or it anchors the spouse etc) is also not openly spoken to and only shamed. Many of these elements deserve acknowledge and permission to process as the program is running automatically and chemically reinforced in our bodies (and the media, and our peers and and and). Let me say very firmly: there are few narratives for a woman to age into outside of the identity of motherhood, for good or bad. And this is just as crucial an issue to a woman as a full person as it is to have a child for right or wrong reasons. Some of this is beyond logic and merit. Many of us are literally born and wired for it and our system will push us there even if we are under resourced in our personalities, financially or whatever. Be kind is the short of it. Let’s stop tossing around heavy words we have stunted understandings of.
Thank you Mia for another view. As an adult child of a narcissist, it's easy for me to project that type of personality onto others though it may not be correct, and it would be sad if it was the case with M.
I am so glad that my wife made me become more involved in our kids' lives. Not that she is tough or anything but any person who can go through 6 months of brutal chemotherapy, and survive, is not to be messed with. So once she twisted my arm out of its socket I made more time for them and less for work. Best investment I ever made!!
One other thing that I got from the letter is whom can she rely on? All those well intentioned friends who say time after time, "Just call me if you need anything." Seriously? Okay, but when I do wind up calling saying that I need someone to pick my wife up from the hospital after a treatment, I get, "Oh man. I would if I could. Any other day though just call me." No thanks.
What I needed is what my sisters did. They flew out to LA from the right coast and just did what needed doing. No questions, just I am coming for a week to help out.
When our mom died and we were all hanging out at my sister's, one of her friends came by with a huge platter of fresh bagels and all the fixins. Now that impressed me to the point that I do something like it when a friend is goung through something that makes cooking or meal planning a royal pain in the ass.
So now if someone says, "Just call me anytime if you need anything," I say thank you. But the inner monologue goes something like, "Right! You think I am going to call you?? The one time I did call and really needed help I called but you were too busy to take 45 minutes to get my wife home from the hospital." There's probably more expletives in there somewhere.
So if you have a friend who wants to be a simgle mom, just fucking show up and help. Don't make promises you will not keep. That just leads to hurt feelings and resentments. I've heard it said once or twice that jus showing up is more than half the task. The rest is a cake walk.
Cheryl I love your voice here but I was surprised by your response to her suggesting she pursue "having a baby." I put that it quotes because that's all she ever says about it as if it's a one-time act that involves social media posts and not an entire lifetime of crucial decision-making. It feels like you read more here than I did. She doesn't really describe an urge to be a mother moreso than just the typical "have a baby" which is so two-dimensional. everything in her letter was about loss and heartbreak and nothing about a longstanding desire or goal to be a mother or raise a child.
Maybe it's my own mother's influence who raised me mostly on her own. She loves being a mother and always knew she wanted to be one. She also says "having a child" (note the difference in word choice here) is the hardest thing youll ever do and that it should be. Now, that last part is how she individually feels but certainly I can agree and respect a parent saying that choosing to be a parent is hard. It's not a cosmetic act and I guess I need to say this for some reason but BABIES GROW. that's kind of the point of babies. I agree with another commenter downthread. without any mention of a child as a whole human being this letter reads like a narcissistic woman who will make her kids life pretty miserable....which is her right, of course and obviously anyone can be and IS a parent.
but just surprised at your enthusiasm for her to check out a website and go for it.
.... many parents, if not all, grow alongside their children. This includes in their understanding and responsibilities. Thank god babies don’t turn 13 in a single day. Nature knew. It’s why we hormonally bond in the beginning, to create some reward circuits and prepare us for what comes next.
I ended up in a second marriage, because I got accidentally pregnant. I didn't want a second marriage. The man was/is good. He is 13 years my junior. And he stood by me. But I had no closure on the divorce, no time to breathe between the divorce, the pregnancy, the second marriage. I was not ready to marry again. And I did not have courage nor the means to do it alone. Plus this is India!
As a 39-year-old-woman in a stable, loving relationship who doesn’t feel the magnetic pull toward parenthood the letter writer, Sugar, and numerous posters describe, I wish Sugar would have more fairly addressed the counter-arguments against having a child solo.
First, a woman with a young child is going to have an incredibly difficult time meeting a partner. It’s not just, “maybe you’ll meet the man of your dreams at 42!” It’s, this is going to change your life so dramatically that it may preclude you from dating for a decade. It will also decrease your attractiveness to members of the opposite sex around your age who have no interest in raising a child that is not their own (or any child).
So, one potential trade off is between baby versus partner, and it’s perfectly fine for the letter writer to decide they would rather have a baby than spend that time and energy trying to find a suitable partner. Then, I think they need to acknowledge that a relationship between a child and a parent is not naturally or automatically perfect. Everyone thinks the bond between mother and child will be endlessly loving, adoring, and compassionate but frankly, some children don’t want to be their parents’ best friends. Some children, especially boys, will act out if they don’t have a father figure around. Does the letter writer have a plan to introduce positive male role models to the child if they are a boy? We act like fathers don’t matter, but look at the hundreds of thousands of men and boys without stable fathers who are in the criminal justice system for committing violent, cruel crimes.
It also seems like the advice provided by sugar reduces to solely “if you want it you should do it,” rather than working through the reasons why this desire exists and whether exercising it is going to lead to the outcome that the person wants. Sounds like this person wants love and companionship. Kids grow up. They leave. They cannot fill the hole at our hearts forever. We don’t have children for ourselves, we do it for them.
Finally, a strong desire toward motherhood can be actualized in many ways including being a foster parent or volunteering at a school. But people want to “have a baby“ because this is a life experience worthy of documentation on social media and identity-granting mystical powers. The nitty-gritty of being a mother is not glamorous, it is a duty and a sacrifice and it will be made harder when there is not a supportive partner there too shoulder the burden’s and share in the joys. Ask any divorced woman, single mother, or a woman with a partner who just doesn’t pull their weight whether they would rather have someone more engaged helping them to raise their children and I have a feeling I know what they would say.
Cheryl- that was the best overview you gave of someone's life decision. When it appears that someone is charged up to get out of life what they want or expect -- I could see the value you added by just leveling the ground for her. No expectations, no disappointments -- just reality with a lot of good examples! Man, if I am about to need a weigh-in for a life decision, you are the person I want to "listen to my case." You are a great objective arbitrator and I am, like many on this thread, wanting to hear what the final outcome is. I bet is going to be a great one!
Oh! This made be cry, and laugh, and send a message to my kid, and remind me to be kinder to my mother. Thank you.
I love reading your true, strong, real words. Momming has been my full time gig and I could never have imagined a more beautiful way to spend a lifetime. I’m so grateful. ❤️
I would love the letter writer to submit a follow up! I must know how this one turned out!
I was just coming on here to ask the same thing!!!!!
Thanks for this.
This is beautiful. As a woman of 39 who’s partner made a solo decision to get a vasectomy 3 years ago (4 years into our relationship) that devastated me at the time, these considerations are honest and hold space for the reality. He is ten years older and now has two daughters in their early 20’s. He’s Swiss (for those who know, he cuts to the core) and states that while he loves his children, it was not easy (he was the stay at home dad for the first two years for one of them), and he never wants to repeat it more than once. Particularly not at this point in his life. It was a selfish decision, but if ever there is a decision to be selfish about - it’s this one (and trust me, this realization took time to come to).
Personally (this is for anyone who might be walking this fine line of time deciding what to do) I’m feeling differently. My energy overflowed in my 20’s when it was its strongest, and I see in hindsight that there was plenty to pour into others. I’m not feeling I have those reserves anymore, I need my spare time as time seems to have quickened, I can’t stand socializing with the mom/school groups (that would be necessity) and I enjoy living freely according to my own schedule. So perhaps, it’s working out.
What I love about this Sugar letter is that there is acknowledgement of the shadow in these perfect images we strive for. And a lot of sacrifice. There’s more than one option and story line and often our commitment to a fantasy over what simply is, is what causes the pain.
Living with this partner today, I realize why men never saw me as the mother I saw myself to potentially be. I don’t turn to serve someone other than myself. I need and take in ample rest. I have a lot of free time that I don’t commit to anyone but myself. And I’m out of sorts if I don’t have this.
Trust ….. we aren’t victims to our relationships, situation and circumstance. We are half the equation.
Cheryl, your message touched this aching mom heart. Your advice to M was a good start. DS is now 32,abandoned by his father when I was 12 wks, 2 yrs and again at 4 which was only 2 hr visit. I didn't allow more contact. Dated men who expressed dislike for kids of others, bragged about forcing his wife to abort, one was frighteningly friendly toward son... decided was safer not to date. Didn't count on tx schools being so intensely bad..kid was treated for major depression in first month of K!!! Moved to other district ,no better so homeschooled while working in nursing where couldn't get health care insurance, abusive scheduling, did 2 hurricane evacuations, the last 10 days after his appendectomy. Kid is on the spectrum so all these stressors hit him hard. Point is no matter how you prepare there are infinite variables to trip you,break you,hurt your kid,cost more money...or your health. Don't live in tx anymore,don't support any child to live there.
I remember reading this letter in Tiny Beautiful Things, and a red flag is waving in me. This person sounds like a narcissist and I want her not to be a mother. I want her future child to not feel that they are an accessory, a thing that makes this person whole. I fear for this child.
agreed, she says "have a baby" like shes playing house. she never says "child" or even mentions motherhood. i'm curious if she understands that babies grow lol
I wrote a long comment about my experience above. I don’t know if she can be titled as such, that’s quite harsh and is a put down from someone in a position to put her down from a place she cannot answer from or to. However you are correct, the full conversation about what it means to be a mother beyond birth and infancy is missing in the mainstream dialogue AND why many of us crave to be mothers (enter: it fills a hole or connect us to a support/relation/financial system or give us identity or it anchors the spouse etc) is also not openly spoken to and only shamed. Many of these elements deserve acknowledge and permission to process as the program is running automatically and chemically reinforced in our bodies (and the media, and our peers and and and). Let me say very firmly: there are few narratives for a woman to age into outside of the identity of motherhood, for good or bad. And this is just as crucial an issue to a woman as a full person as it is to have a child for right or wrong reasons. Some of this is beyond logic and merit. Many of us are literally born and wired for it and our system will push us there even if we are under resourced in our personalities, financially or whatever. Be kind is the short of it. Let’s stop tossing around heavy words we have stunted understandings of.
Thank you Mia for another view. As an adult child of a narcissist, it's easy for me to project that type of personality onto others though it may not be correct, and it would be sad if it was the case with M.
Hell, Cheryl, I am enamored with your FAQ PAGE! It's better than half the New York Times' Recommended This Week books!
I am so glad that my wife made me become more involved in our kids' lives. Not that she is tough or anything but any person who can go through 6 months of brutal chemotherapy, and survive, is not to be messed with. So once she twisted my arm out of its socket I made more time for them and less for work. Best investment I ever made!!
One other thing that I got from the letter is whom can she rely on? All those well intentioned friends who say time after time, "Just call me if you need anything." Seriously? Okay, but when I do wind up calling saying that I need someone to pick my wife up from the hospital after a treatment, I get, "Oh man. I would if I could. Any other day though just call me." No thanks.
What I needed is what my sisters did. They flew out to LA from the right coast and just did what needed doing. No questions, just I am coming for a week to help out.
When our mom died and we were all hanging out at my sister's, one of her friends came by with a huge platter of fresh bagels and all the fixins. Now that impressed me to the point that I do something like it when a friend is goung through something that makes cooking or meal planning a royal pain in the ass.
So now if someone says, "Just call me anytime if you need anything," I say thank you. But the inner monologue goes something like, "Right! You think I am going to call you?? The one time I did call and really needed help I called but you were too busy to take 45 minutes to get my wife home from the hospital." There's probably more expletives in there somewhere.
So if you have a friend who wants to be a simgle mom, just fucking show up and help. Don't make promises you will not keep. That just leads to hurt feelings and resentments. I've heard it said once or twice that jus showing up is more than half the task. The rest is a cake walk.
Enjoy the cruise. We did a cruise on the Danube three years ago and it goes to the most amazing places. I loved Vienna and Budapest and Salzburg
Cheryl I love your voice here but I was surprised by your response to her suggesting she pursue "having a baby." I put that it quotes because that's all she ever says about it as if it's a one-time act that involves social media posts and not an entire lifetime of crucial decision-making. It feels like you read more here than I did. She doesn't really describe an urge to be a mother moreso than just the typical "have a baby" which is so two-dimensional. everything in her letter was about loss and heartbreak and nothing about a longstanding desire or goal to be a mother or raise a child.
Maybe it's my own mother's influence who raised me mostly on her own. She loves being a mother and always knew she wanted to be one. She also says "having a child" (note the difference in word choice here) is the hardest thing youll ever do and that it should be. Now, that last part is how she individually feels but certainly I can agree and respect a parent saying that choosing to be a parent is hard. It's not a cosmetic act and I guess I need to say this for some reason but BABIES GROW. that's kind of the point of babies. I agree with another commenter downthread. without any mention of a child as a whole human being this letter reads like a narcissistic woman who will make her kids life pretty miserable....which is her right, of course and obviously anyone can be and IS a parent.
but just surprised at your enthusiasm for her to check out a website and go for it.
.... many parents, if not all, grow alongside their children. This includes in their understanding and responsibilities. Thank god babies don’t turn 13 in a single day. Nature knew. It’s why we hormonally bond in the beginning, to create some reward circuits and prepare us for what comes next.
You're so good it's scary
So beautifully written.
I ended up in a second marriage, because I got accidentally pregnant. I didn't want a second marriage. The man was/is good. He is 13 years my junior. And he stood by me. But I had no closure on the divorce, no time to breathe between the divorce, the pregnancy, the second marriage. I was not ready to marry again. And I did not have courage nor the means to do it alone. Plus this is India!
As a 39-year-old-woman in a stable, loving relationship who doesn’t feel the magnetic pull toward parenthood the letter writer, Sugar, and numerous posters describe, I wish Sugar would have more fairly addressed the counter-arguments against having a child solo.
First, a woman with a young child is going to have an incredibly difficult time meeting a partner. It’s not just, “maybe you’ll meet the man of your dreams at 42!” It’s, this is going to change your life so dramatically that it may preclude you from dating for a decade. It will also decrease your attractiveness to members of the opposite sex around your age who have no interest in raising a child that is not their own (or any child).
So, one potential trade off is between baby versus partner, and it’s perfectly fine for the letter writer to decide they would rather have a baby than spend that time and energy trying to find a suitable partner. Then, I think they need to acknowledge that a relationship between a child and a parent is not naturally or automatically perfect. Everyone thinks the bond between mother and child will be endlessly loving, adoring, and compassionate but frankly, some children don’t want to be their parents’ best friends. Some children, especially boys, will act out if they don’t have a father figure around. Does the letter writer have a plan to introduce positive male role models to the child if they are a boy? We act like fathers don’t matter, but look at the hundreds of thousands of men and boys without stable fathers who are in the criminal justice system for committing violent, cruel crimes.
It also seems like the advice provided by sugar reduces to solely “if you want it you should do it,” rather than working through the reasons why this desire exists and whether exercising it is going to lead to the outcome that the person wants. Sounds like this person wants love and companionship. Kids grow up. They leave. They cannot fill the hole at our hearts forever. We don’t have children for ourselves, we do it for them.
Finally, a strong desire toward motherhood can be actualized in many ways including being a foster parent or volunteering at a school. But people want to “have a baby“ because this is a life experience worthy of documentation on social media and identity-granting mystical powers. The nitty-gritty of being a mother is not glamorous, it is a duty and a sacrifice and it will be made harder when there is not a supportive partner there too shoulder the burden’s and share in the joys. Ask any divorced woman, single mother, or a woman with a partner who just doesn’t pull their weight whether they would rather have someone more engaged helping them to raise their children and I have a feeling I know what they would say.
The most real and lovely answer. XO
Cheryl- that was the best overview you gave of someone's life decision. When it appears that someone is charged up to get out of life what they want or expect -- I could see the value you added by just leveling the ground for her. No expectations, no disappointments -- just reality with a lot of good examples! Man, if I am about to need a weigh-in for a life decision, you are the person I want to "listen to my case." You are a great objective arbitrator and I am, like many on this thread, wanting to hear what the final outcome is. I bet is going to be a great one!